Curse

ElderAtronach · Sep 06, 2005, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Bloodstone

I think half the issue here is not ether renewal (and I do acknowledge that it is overpowered) but rather than energy degen caps out at -10? why the hell is that? That means that even with natures renewal up, it is only effective if the E/Mo is maintaining 5 enchantments or less, any more than that and it's making no difference to the -10 energy degen...

In my mind, there should BE NO ENERGY DEGEN CAP. Having one only leads to exploits like this.

It would be better for you to undestand how the skills actually work in practice before posting.

The percentage of E/Mos using "maintained" enchants is very low.

FluidFox · Sep 06, 2005, 12:52 PM // 12:52

The only cap on the number of enchants you can maintain with ER is the number of targets you have to cast on. Once again folks, for those that seem to have trouble understanding... this is not a strategy or anything resembling practical. It is quite simply an illustraion of a questionable game mechanic.

If he could find enough targets, he could fill his entire screen with enchantments... all because of a single energy management skill. It's broken.

Esprit · Sep 06, 2005, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Elemental spells tend to cost more, energy wise, in the first place. You have a greater majority of 15 - 25 energy spells than 5 -10 energy spells, especially on the fire side.

Earthquake, Eruption, Mark of Rodgort, Meteor Shower, Rodgort's Invocation, Searing Heat, Deep Freeze, and Maelstrom, are all 25 energy spells.

Where as for Monks you have Light of Dwayna and Balthazar's Aura as your only 25 energy spells.

I use Monks as the comparison since they are most common with Ele's.

Even though Elementals have such high energy storage potential, it doesn't mean every Elemental has 100+ energy, the more usual energy caps around 80 or so, and so you have to be careful with what spells you have in your skill list, to keep up some semblance of damage output. You can't throw in three or four, 25 energy spells, because it doesn't make sense. And don't forget about exhaustion for many of those spells.

Ether Renewal helps balance this out, first you need at least 2 enchantments on yourself for make the spell worth it, and then there is the slot for Ether Renewal. So you are just left with 5 spells that could deal damage. You can try relying on a monk for enchantments, but that is taking a gamble, because your monk might not be able to cast the enchantment when you want to use Ether Renewal.

Plus it is elite, and you don't get the spell until later in the game.

For PvE, it is a very useful spell, and even for PvP, as you are able to put in more high energy spells if you have Ether Renewal to help you out. That way, Elementals don't burn themselves out in the ~20 seconds of a battle and then have to wait for energy.

salja Wachi · Sep 06, 2005, 01:31 PM // 13:31

sigh.

another "elite" raising his ugly head.

ER is not broken just the players that bitch and moan about it are broken

MarkyX · Sep 06, 2005, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

sigh.

another "elite" raising his ugly head.

ER is not broken just the players that bitch and moan about it are broken

You didn't look at the screenshot, did you?

edwinna elbert · Sep 06, 2005, 01:49 PM // 13:49

What exactly is the problem here? If your team is stupid enough not to be able to remove a lot of enchantments, you're going nowhere. Rend Enchantments or Lingering Curse is vital is you want to get rid of the cheap-ass players. I certainly don't think that anyone could find this a workable tactic in any serious PvP anyway though.

Other solutions to counter this type of thing:

Dwarven battle stance
Any knockdown (hammer, lightning, earth etc.)
Distracting, savage, concussion shot, chocking gas, incendiary arrows
Diversion (spammed), half the other mesmer skills.

Anyway, doesn't an enchant removal remove the last cast enchantment? Which is this case will always be ether renewal. Let him cast it and then strip/shatter/drain/rend it right away, his energy drops to 0 and all the enchantments fail.

Schorny · Sep 06, 2005, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Please read the links posted by Scaphism

So much dumbness starts to hurt :/

Unlimited Energy is overpowered. No matter if you can disrupt it or not. No skills should give unlimited energy/health/etc.

Epinephrine · Sep 06, 2005, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

sigh.

another "elite" raising his ugly head.

ER is not broken just the players that bitch and moan about it are broken

No, ER is broken and has been for ages.

Players that bitch and whine about a new build, or those that don't understand which skill is unbalanced are idiots. The guy who posted "nerf pets" because he was beaten by a build using "I Will Avenge You" missed the point completely for example, as pets being weaker wouldn't affect that build at all - pets only matter there because they provide corpses. Nerfing pets because of that is idiocy

There are some skills that are broken - Zealot's fire puts out damage at an incredibly cheap rate, while doing something else (healing). I posted builds using smiting monks during beta, and was laughed at, but the fact is that it is so efficient that it can't miss essentially. Granted, I never foresaw the draw condition spamming back then, I was thinking of orison/reversal etc, using chanelling as the energy source, but the fact is that it's been too powerful since day 1. Ether renewal is broken because it generates 6 times the energy of other elite skills that are energy generators. Any skill that adds health or energy/something without a cap is abusable - that's why blessed signet has a cap in it's description. That's why reversal of fortune etc... have caps in the description. Because as soon as you make a skill with no cap it can be abused to hell.

There are two forms of iritating dogmatism: The "everyone who complains about a skill is a whiner" form, and the "OMG, it beat me, nerf it" form.

Believe it or not, both are wrong, and there are legitimate complaints about skills, often well reasoned, by people who examine the game and come to conclusions about it. There are complaints about the weakness of skills as well - many skills are pitifully underpowered and thus aren't played. How about you look at some of the real criticisms before mouthing off about whiners.

Silmor · Sep 06, 2005, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Players that bitch and whine about a new build, or those that don't understand which skill is unbalanced are idiots. The guy who posted "nerf pets" because he was beaten by a build using "I Will Avenge You" missed the point completely for example

About missing the point completely, he was using the build and chose the title in a tongue-in-cheek fashion. Aside that, I fully agree, but I fear it's lost on these people anyway. They're not too hot on the entire 'reading' or 'discussing' thing, and prefer to just glance over the OP then repeat their opinion without any solid argumentation.

salja Wachi · Sep 06, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkyX

You didn't look at the screenshot, did you?

lol bro yo do not even know who i was referring to

salja Wachi · Sep 06, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

No, ER is broken and has been for ages.

Players that bitch and whine about a new build, or those that don't understand which skill is unbalanced are idiots. The guy who posted "nerf pets" because he was beaten by a build using "I Will Avenge You" missed the point completely for example, as pets being weaker wouldn't affect that build at all - pets only matter there because they provide corpses. Nerfing pets because of that is idiocy

There are some skills that are broken - Zealot's fire puts out damage at an incredibly cheap rate, while doing something else (healing). I posted builds using smiting monks during beta, and was laughed at, but the fact is that it is so efficient that it can't miss essentially. Granted, I never foresaw the draw condition spamming back then, I was thinking of orison/reversal etc, using chanelling as the energy source, but the fact is that it's been too powerful since day 1. Ether renewal is broken because it generates 6 times the energy of other elite skills that are energy generators. Any skill that adds health or energy/something without a cap is abusable - that's why blessed signet has a cap in it's description. That's why reversal of fortune etc... have caps in the description. Because as soon as you make a skill with no cap it can be abused to hell.

There are two forms of iritating dogmatism: The "everyone who complains about a skill is a whiner" form, and the "OMG, it beat me, nerf it" form.

Believe it or not, both are wrong, and there are legitimate complaints about skills, often well reasoned, by people who examine the game and come to conclusions about it. There are complaints about the weakness of skills as well - many skills are pitifully underpowered and thus aren't played. How about you look at some of the real criticisms before mouthing off about whiners.

i have looked at this from all angels. i have read everyones input on this and other boards.

ER in my opinion is not broken. is it powerful? absolutely but it is an elite. they are supposed to be powerful.

the same could be said for other elites.

however it seems like talking to a wall arguing about this.

stop the nerfing and play the game. smite build can and are beaten on a regular basis.

look at what most of the rank 6+ build are running in tombs. it is not smite.

FrogDevourer · Sep 06, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Let's try to sum up the current arguments and why they are irrelevant.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=87

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

ER in my opinion is not broken. is it powerful? absolutely but it is an elite.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0&postcount=56

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

stop the nerfing and play the game. smite build can and are beaten on a regular basis.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&postcount=52

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

look at what most of the rank 6+ build are running in tombs. it is not smite.

Please enlighten us with your builds. Most, if not all rank 6 I know are using smiters plus anti-smiters to win the Smite Wars.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3&postcount=98

warped314 · Sep 06, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

i have looked at this from all angels. i have read everyones input on this and other boards.

ER in my opinion is not broken. is it powerful? absolutely but it is an elite. they are supposed to be powerful.

the same could be said for other elites.

however it seems like talking to a wall arguing about this.

stop the nerfing and play the game. smite build can and are beaten on a regular basis.

look at what most of the rank 6+ build are running in tombs. it is not smite.

actually they do run one smiter occasionally to supplement warrior heavy builds.

salja Wachi · Sep 06, 2005, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0&postcount=56
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&postcount=52
Please enlighten us with your builds. Most, if not all rank 6 I know are using smiters plus anti-smiters to win the Smite Wars.

in fact just last night black rose was running a balanced build with some anti smiting. they wond the hall 3-4 times in a row as i remember (it was a late night so things get a bit blurry)

also mystique did quite well with her group tht was not running smite.

FrogDevourer · Sep 06, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

in fact just last night black rose was running a balanced build with some anti smiting. they wond the hall 3-4 times in a row as i remember (it was a late night so things get a bit blurry)

Is that all you have to offer in this discussion? A couple of guild names? May be you'd like to add the FotM build with 8 warr/pets?

Please read the above posts. When you can provide as much objective input showing that E.R doesn't need a fix, I'll be happy to examine your opinion. Until then, I'll respectfully ignore your hollow posts.

salja Wachi · Sep 06, 2005, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Is that all you have to offer in this discussion? A couple of guild names? May be you'd like to add the FotM build with 8 warr/pets?

Please read the above posts. When you can provide as much objective input showing that E.R doesn't need a fix, I'll be happy to examine your opinion. Until then, I'll respectfully ignore your hollow posts.

*sighs* i was asked a specific question and i answered it.

as far as you ignoring my posts please do. I could care less.

it seems as if all you have offered is a NERF!!!

not that that surprises me too much though.

when you are not good enough to counter something hell nerf it.

Theus · Sep 06, 2005, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

i have looked at this from all angels. i have read everyones input on this and other boards.

1. ER in my opinion is not broken. is it powerful? absolutely but it is an elite. they are supposed to be powerful.

2. the same could be said for other elites.

3. however it seems like talking to a wall arguing about this.

4. stop the nerfing and play the game. smite build can and are beaten on a regular basis.

5. look at what most of the rank 6+ build are running in tombs. it is not smite.

1.So..A skill that can basicly give you an unlimited source of energy..is not overpowered?Hell..why dont we make an elite that makes warrior completely invincible!ITS AN ELITE SO ITS JUSTIFIED!*Thrusts Pelvis*

2.Bull.If there were other elites that could be used like this we would have already seen them in GvG/HoH.

3.Irony at its finest folks.

4.That's not the point.HoH is FLOODED with them.I don't know about you..but going up agaisnt the same team over and over again is incredibly boring.

5.Thats simply because They are starting to run other characters(Mesmers preferbly) to lockdown other mesmers and smiters.

salja Wachi · Sep 06, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

1.So..A skill that can basicly give you an unlimited source of energy..is not overpowered?Hell..why dont we make an elite that makes warrior completely invincible!ITS AN ELITE SO ITS JUSTIFIED!*Thrusts Pelvis*

2.Bull.If there were other elites that could be used like this we would have already seen them in GvG/HoH.

3.Irony at its finest folks.

4.That's not the point.HoH is FLOODED with them.I don't know about you..but going up agaisnt the same team over and over again is incredibly boring.

5.Thats simply because They are starting to run other characters(Mesmers preferbly) to lockdown other mesmers and smiters.

i will respond to numbers 4 and 5 cuase they are your best ansswers

you are correct on both counts.

4

it is very boring yes i agree, hawever that wil not last long as the smite build will og the way of the air ele etc.

5

exactly right my friend. they are making counter builds that work extremely well, yet are still very effective if they happen to encounter a non smiting build. you see that is the key now that they have begun counterig smite you will see less smite. (maybe not overnight, but eventually)

then smite will no longer be the build "everyone runs"

Zeru · Sep 06, 2005, 03:16 PM // 15:16

This is like arguing that Natures Renewal is not imbalanced with another bonehead.

Good grief when a skill is 10-15 times stronger than the next best skill while active (offering) and overall still 3-5 times stronger it's not that hard to realize it's way out of line.

Smiting is just one of the many ways to abuse ether renewal.

salja Wachi · Sep 06, 2005, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

This is like arguing that Natures Renewal is not imbalanced with another bonehead.

Good grief when a skill is 10-15 times stronger than the next best skill while active (offering) and overall still 3-5 times stronger it's not that hard to realize it's way out of line.

Smiting is just one of the many ways to abuse ether renewal.

the question you have to ask yourself is does the power of the spell make up for other shortcomings the ele profession has?

in my opinion it does. every other caster class has ways to heal/regen energy an ele is very limited in that regard. hence why they put a strong spell like ER in his skills.

a necro has numerous spells at his disposal for healing a mesmer has healing/ energy degen etc.to defend himself

what does an ele have??

not even close to the number of ways to defend itself.

that is why i do not think it needs to be nerfed.